Jedi Order -=Year 243=-
Jedi Order Temple => Other Star Wars stuff => : *<JO>*Scalarik November 08, 2013, 07:28 AM
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Learner Thyn mentioned in shoutbox about the date being confirmed, and I thought the movie and stuff concerning it need a new topic.
http://starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-vii-to-open-december-18-2015.html
So indeed officially it has been confirmed that Episode VII will be in theaters December 18th 2015. Personally, I can't wait.
Edit: Changed the date from 18th to 16th.
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Wow. The same day, December 18 2015 goes live Warcraft movie. December in two years would be an awesome season.
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A new movie should breathe new life into the SW community, so I'm excited about that! Just hope the movie lives up to the Star Wars name!
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Pretty strong rumors indicate the following to appear in the film: Ian McDiarmid, Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, Mark Hamill, Billy Dee Williams, Anthony Daniels, Warwick Davies, Benedict Cumberbatch and Gary Oldman.
If this turns out to be true... Wow, what a cast.
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Yay! We got an officially confirmed cast!
http://starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-7-cast-announced.html
Their site is currently almost crashed, lol. To put it short, the original golden trio is in the movie ;)
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No Lando?! Nooooooooooooooo!
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On a side note, http://venturebeat.com/2014/04/25/lets-blow-this-thing-and-go-home-your-favorite-star-wars-games-are-no-longer-canon/
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Cool! Gives them more freedom with the films. I've always been a bit hesitant to consider the games true canon anyway.
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That picture is just mesmerising. R2D2 in a wooden box, love the set up.
~ Master Valérii
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ive accepted the fact the games are part of the canon and the book, i cant believe they done this, you guys know disney will RUIN star wars entirely right?
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K0DJLY9vf3Y/UZjinRUbrcI/AAAAAAAAWXk/b9IX4-AlLRM/s400/get-attachment-1.aspx.jpeg)
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Yeah, I'm starting to get that impression >:(
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I think Starkiller broke a lot of the canon anyway so it's probably a good things the games aren't included
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Weelll... not as much as Asajii Ventress or robotic Darth Maul, still they're canon while Starkiller isn't.
Guys, you do understand that this means NO KYLE KATARN in canon?? No Kyle who basically was my first real introduction into star wars!!
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No Lando?! Nooooooooooooooo!
IF there's no Lando, then what is Billy Dee Williams going to play? Just asking, since in another post, his name was mentioned and he played Lando. :P
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Episode VII has a name!
The Force Awakens
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Woo! Not long now.
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Who put the Force to sleep?
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The sleeper must awaken!
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The hype is real:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOVFvcNfvE
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It actually looks good
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Pumped.
At first I didn't really like the looks of that guy's saber, but someone on Reddit suggested it could be a really crappily put together lightsaber as there were no Sith to teach him, and the two mini-blades are actually heat exhausts... or something. Explains the raw sounds and appearance it has.
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Yaaaaaay it's not completely rubbish!!!!
(It's looks actually pretty promising)
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Looks pretty decent, hopefully will be a good film.
*<JO>*Yanto
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You know, I'm not actually looking forward to it one bit. I'd much rather they kept the EU and made some movies based off that, like the Thrawn Trilogy. I've read some leaked info and the movie seems...bad. It compromises some very important things about the lore, in my opinion. And it keeps pushing the "two separate sides of the force" approach which I think is a load of bantha...faecal matter.
Also, from a technical point of view, that lightsaber is absolutely ridiculous. I do like the CGI on it, but aside from that it's rather stupid. I like to think I know a bit about lightsabers so hear me out :P
Now, I didn't know this, but Tabaet pointed out to me that when lightsaber blades collide, their magnetic field locks them in place there. They can't slide. So already, the crossguard is a bit pointless. But let's assume that they retconned that too. Let's say the blade is sliding down the sith's blade. What does it hit? The protruding emitter. Not the lightsaber crossguard. It hits the emitter. It cuts the emitter off. Along with several fingers I'd imagine. Pointless, just pointless I tell you.
One thing I did like was the shot with the X-Wings. That looked pretty cool. But I won't be seeing the movie. Or at least, I won't be paying to see it. I choose to believe that the EU still exists!
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Yeah, I'm with Ving on this :'(
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That saber though, yuck!
~ Master Valérii
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I really need to read that Thrawn trilogy everyone's been talking about.
Anyway, I do like to think that ridiculousness (and uselessness) of some props is what makes Star Wars so epic. It's combining fun stuff with serious stuff, which could potentially lead to great results. That's why I don't think that much of the "crossguard" lightsaber thingies. On the other hand...
The issue with no "grey" side bothers me a bit. They could push it in the wrong direction, and it's not '77 out there any longer. It's not black and white, and they really should come up with strong plot and motivation of WHY the dark side and the light side cannot coexist in one style, one Force user.
Overall, as master Alpha pointed out earlier, this movie is indeed fresh blood, and it's specifically targeted at younger audience. (Hardcore fans will accept it one way or another). And I'm super excited about it coming. If it appeals to general public, it could mean bright future to the games as well, and to lightsaber ones in particular.
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Seems like post-VI stories got scrapped for a reason...
Star Wars to release 20 books in Journey to The Force Awakens (http://www.ew.com/article/2015/03/09/star-wars-release-20-books-journey-force-awakens?asdf&hootPostID=7ff3f5df92d8226bca4ca0fddcb87c6f)
I might actually like this, may be a more coordinated version of the EU (I really did not like some of the old stories, like Joruus :P). Depends if they do it well.
EDIT: Actual Star Wars announcement can be found here: http://www.starwars.com/news/journey-to-star-wars-the-force-awakens-publishing-program-coming-fall-2015
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Aaaand after VII the wait continues!
Standalone called "Rogue One" - Dec 16 2016
Episode VIII - May 26 2017
Link (http://www.starwars.com/news/rogue-one-is-the-first-star-wars-stand-alone-film-rian-johnson-to-write-and-direct-star-wars-episode-viii?linkId=12857863)
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New trailer was just live in SWCA. Wow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCc2v7izk8w
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Just wow.
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That looked amazing!
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I still stand by my point :(
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Definitely looks great!
~ Master Valérii
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:o
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looks good aye
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You know, I'm not actually looking forward to it one bit. I'd much rather they kept the EU and made some movies based off that, like the Thrawn Trilogy. I've read some leaked info and the movie seems...bad. It compromises some very important things about the lore, in my opinion. And it keeps pushing the "two separate sides of the force" approach which I think is a load of bantha...faecal matter.
Also, from a technical point of view, that lightsaber is absolutely ridiculous. I do like the CGI on it, but aside from that it's rather stupid. I like to think I know a bit about lightsabers so hear me out :P
Now, I didn't know this, but Tabaet pointed out to me that when lightsaber blades collide, their magnetic field locks them in place there. They can't slide. So already, the crossguard is a bit pointless. But let's assume that they retconned that too. Let's say the blade is sliding down the sith's blade. What does it hit? The protruding emitter. Not the lightsaber crossguard. It hits the emitter. It cuts the emitter off. Along with several fingers I'd imagine. Pointless, just pointless I tell you.
One thing I did like was the shot with the X-Wings. That looked pretty cool. But I won't be seeing the movie. Or at least, I won't be paying to see it. I choose to believe that the EU still exists!
(http://cnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/12/02/246b4170-34a9-4a8e-9c32-b54103eaf831/resize/770x578/1d82a37e6a7021d36389205bbc87453b/stephen-colbert-force-awakens-lightsaber.jpg)
Also, you are assuming the metal used in the hilt is cuttable. Which, considering how you are a proponent of the former EU, you might remember is not necessarily true. Some materials, including metals, in the SWU are resistant or even impervious to a lightsaber blade. So.... there's that....
Personally, I can't wait for this movie. And I'm going to be the opposite of you because I am excited BECAUSE they eliminated the EU.
The EU was so expansive and so overwhelming that it diluted the story. There was too much. There were too many stories and novels and so on that every character had every moment of their lives accounted for. There was no room for creativity. No way could they make a movie AND keep the EU. I know what you may say; "They could have made the EU into movies! They make books into movies!"... And you'd be right... But, if we're being honest... a lot of the EU is just bad.
I hope it exceeds your expectations and you have an enjoyable time, though. I'm just glad someone is DOING something with the series. I expect the first movie to be fanservice. Lots of callbacks and introductions. 2nd movie is the critical one, IMO. 2017, come faster!
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(http://dorksideoftheforce.com/files/2015/04/Kylo-Ren-saber-1.jpg)
(Star Wars Celebration, official model)
This picture seems to prove the metal is very cuttable. Also, this plays in favor of the theory that the saber is just ... crap. Look at it :P
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The red wire on the outside is just great. I mean really, there's no reason to have it there, I'm positive it could easily be internal. This here's a 3D print, yeah, so obviously it's solid and can't be yanked out, but realistically.... yeah. Your hands are moving over that! A lot! And if you want to be picky, the rule of thumb is that red=power supply. I bet diatium cells can give you quite the jolt!
And I can't tell for sure, but it looks like the crossguard emitters are indeed shielded. From the bottom. That'll really help, yeah.
(http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/319/files/2015/04/Kylo-Ren-saber-2.jpg)
And I can't remember where I've read this (it might have been Knight Tabaet that said it), but lightsabers 'lock' when they collide. There's a magnetic field holding the plasma to give it shape. When you hit another lightsaber, the fields get locked. They don't slide. There are offensive crossguard techniques, but I don't imagine they't translate very well to lightsaber combat, where the 'blades' have a 360 degree cutting edge. Obviously, Kylo Ren will have plot armour to stop himself from cutting his own hands off with that ridiculous abomination of a weapon.
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This is literally my mind when the trailer is released. The anticipation is real.
Probably Monday evening, though still a sly chance it could be today.
(http://33.media.tumblr.com/27ba772478863d70462c0ea35229f39d/tumblr_nlvu039MLe1s6w6foo1_500.gif)
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Tickets available tomorrow morning at 07:00 JO time. Don't miss your chance :)
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This is literally my mind when the trailer is released. The anticipation is real.
Probably Monday evening, though still a sly chance it could be today.
(http://33.media.tumblr.com/27ba772478863d70462c0ea35229f39d/tumblr_nlvu039MLe1s6w6foo1_500.gif)
This turned out to be pretty accurate. Watched the trailer about 20 times today :P
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John Williams managed to pull something incredible out of the theme. I thought after Ep. III opening there's no way to get better. Man I was wrong.
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Check out this fan edited Music only version of the trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci0C8ggQWys (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci0C8ggQWys)
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Wow. Thanks Master, that's amazing. Now I know what I'll be listening to until the end of December.
Infinite looper of the track: http://www.infinitelooper.com/?v=Ci0C8ggQWys&p=n
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FYI, that is not likely John Williams. Of course the original is, but the remix isn't.
Still, it's amazing.
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Unexpectedly there is a second trailer around! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdAUiyeJMFQ
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<- The Hype is real with this one. btw, I'm back to the SWTOR during weekends (imp on tomb of freddon nadd). come join me ;)
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Has anyone else pre-emptively fallen in love with Daisy Ridley a.k.a Rey (no last name but 100% going to be Solo or Skywalker)?
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Just a few more days! Can't wait!
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Anyone else got tickets to the first screening on Wednesday? :D
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I'm seeing on Saturday, I'm actually looking forward to it ;D
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Seen it :o
It is excellent, the themes are a tad repetitive, but overall just brilliant ;)
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You've seen it?! Is it more similar to the prequels or sequels? I'm working nights til this weekend, so I'm in for a long wait.
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You've seen it?! Is it more similar to the prequels or sequels? I'm working nights til this weekend, so I'm in for a long wait.
It mostly resembles ANH (Without spoiling too much, Baddies got a base that needs to be destroyed). That is probably where the similarity comes from. The practical effects make it beautiful and familiar. I don't know where I'd rank it, but definitely better than the prequels :)
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Also, some great music!
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Was in cinema yesterday. It [is] the movie I was expecting. Wanna see it again, maybe in IMAX.
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Just got out from the theater, 2nd time ;D. It felt much better, knowing it would be as good as it is 8)
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Movie was amazing. I was a little overwhelmed at the end. Might go see it again tomorrow.
I love Rey and Poe. I think they're going to be two of my favorite SW characters period. I think Poe reminds me of Wedge, and I hope they give him a bigger roll than Wedge had in the originals. Rey is just a badass. And I love the new droid!!!
Does anyone know if they're doing the standard SW 2 years between releases or doing one every year?
Btw, who is playing Star Wars Battlefront?!? Play with me!!
My name on origin is Ekul974 - you better add me!
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Yeah, I'm with you guys on this. Loved it!
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Hi Master Ekul :)
Next movie out December 2016, though that will be the death star plans spinoff, Rogue One. Episode VIII will be out spring 2017. I believe young Han Solo spinoff comes in 2018 and Episode IX in 2019. Gonna be a ride like never before :o
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I went dark for four days avoiding the Internet as much as was humanly possible worried about spoilers.
Totally worth it.
Fantastic. 8.9/10 from me. New characters worked. Old characters felt true to themselves. Only one or two moments took me out of it. And the writer in me can ignore or rationalize any plot hole that popped up (as well as the understanding that the saga has two more movies to clear it up).
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It was...AMAZING!
It brought me way back to the old days. We really need a decent Jedi game. Come on!
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was good but after reading a few books when i was younger and then now getting a movie... i liked the books more. That said; was a good movie. Kids loved it and now want half the house decorated in star wars... makes me proud. Hope everyone enjoyed the movie or gets the time to watch it. happy holiday's to everyone in the order.
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was good but after reading a few books when i was younger and then now getting a movie... i liked the books more.
I refuse to pay to watch it, but I've read all about it... And it might be a good film, yes, but like you said. The books were so much better. The story sounds pretty weak overall, and if you ask me, it REALLY wasn't worth gutting the expanded universe to get that film.
That said, I do like Rey and Finn. Or the actors, at least. I just would have preferred to see Daisy Ridley as Jaina Solo, or something. Anything... The Thrawn Trilogy will forever be the sequel trilogy to me. You can't make me think otherwise!
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was good but after reading a few books when i was younger and then now getting a movie... i liked the books more.
I refuse to pay to watch it, but I've read all about it... And it might be a good film, yes, but like you said. The books were so much better. The story sounds pretty weak overall, and if you ask me, it REALLY wasn't worth gutting the expanded universe to get that film.
That said, I do like Rey and Finn. Or the actors, at least. I just would have preferred to see Daisy Ridley as Jaina Solo, or something. Anything... The Thrawn Trilogy will forever be the sequel trilogy to me. You can't make me think otherwise!
Much of the EU was bloated and awful. It was worth getting rid of them even without the movie getting made. Getting a movie and an open ended story is just a cherry on top of getting rid of that bloated mess.
Seems a lot of your opinions, both here and previously, are that you don't want to like the movie, ergo, you don't and refuse to give it a shot. Without even seeing it. You read some things online, ignoring ALL of the good, and decided that the few gripes there are means it is bad. Your suspicions confirmed! This is especially strange considering the synopsis for the Thrawn Trilogy sounds remarkably like what The Force Awakens is, but with different characters and names...
"As the first book opens, the Rebellion, now known as the New Republic, is still fighting to mop up final Imperial resistance and set up a functional government. Out in the fringes of the galaxy, the most brilliant of all the hand-picked Grand Admirals is gaining strength and preparing to attack the New Republic. After convincing a Dark Jedi to join his side, Grand Admiral Thrawn is confident in his victory."
That is EXACTLY what happens... Replace Thrawn with Snoke and BOOM... You have the Force Awakens. But, no... You won't like it. Because he isn't named Thrawn... C'mon bro...
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The reason that works in the Thrawn trilogy is that it takes place almost immediately after RotJ. By the time period covered in TFA, the Empire's been pretty much defeated and they've moved on to a new enemy. TFA gives the impression that almost nothing has happened over the last 30-odd years and, if anything, the Empire/First Order is actually more powerful than it ever was while the Emperor was alive.
Like Ving, I haven't seen the film, but I will eventually and I'm trying to keep an open mind, but a lot of the core concepts seem to be fundamentally flawed.
Sure, a lot of the EU was messy, but most of it was pretty good and built up an insane amount of lore for the universe, while Lucas was pretty happy to say, 'This is like this just because,' and leave it at that :P
Finally, if anything should have been made non-canon, they should have started with the prequels ::)
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The reason that works in the Thrawn trilogy is that it takes place almost immediately after RotJ. By the time period covered in TFA, the Empire's been pretty much defeated and they've moved on to a new enemy. TFA gives the impression that almost nothing has happened over the last 30-odd years and, if anything, the Empire/First Order is actually more powerful than it ever was while the Emperor was alive.
Like Ving, I haven't seen the film, but I will eventually and I'm trying to keep an open mind, but a lot of the core concepts seem to be fundamentally flawed.
Sure, a lot of the EU was messy, but most of it was pretty good and built up an insane amount of lore for the universe, while Lucas was pretty happy to say, 'This is like this just because,' and leave it at that :P
Finally, if anything should have been made non-canon, they should have started with the prequels ::)
Then the complaints that they didn't to the Thrawn Trilogy make even less sense. They couldn't do the Thrawn Trilogy exactly as it was written. The characters have aged too much... So, instead, they did a similar story with new, arguably more interesting characters... And never does it leave the impression "nothing" has happened over the last 30 years... It clearly demonstrates that a ton has happened. The fight didn't end with Vader and the Emperor. As is always true in Star Wars, a power struggle began almost immediately. But, I can't get into what HAS happened because I don't want to be rude to the people who haven't seen it (spoilers).
I'd like to know what core concepts you're speaking of, though. Again, spoilers, so maybe PM? Because the core concepts seem to be Thrawn and ANH adjacent... Similar themes with a twist. So... I mean...
Some of it was pretty good. But, it was too expansive and too much of it was bad. Disney clearly didn't want to be tied down to the bad, convoluted ideas presented in them. The small parts of good were sacrificed to free the hands of creators. And that makes the future exciting. Also, they didn't technically destroy them. They made the "Legends" which sort of means they may have happened, may not of, no one really knows, but it isn't part of the canon story (the stuff people know happened 100%). Which means they'll probably still borrow ideas from it. The best ones, anyway.
And finally, I agree. Prequels need to be redone and done correctly. But, it wouldn't surprise me if GL might have put something in the sale agreement that forces Disney to keep the prequels in the lore. Really just GL's last laugh at the fans. "Hate my prequels?! Now they'll NEVER go away!"... GL is the Sidious of the Star Wars Franchise... lol
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They could have done the Thrawn trilogy in full CGI, like the TOR cinematics, then the age of the actors would be irrelevant. But it would have been far better if they'd set the film a couple of hundred years in the future, when the Jedi and Sith have both been fully reborn and they could have made a completely new story without bringing in the original actors or being constrained by massive amounts of story content that isn't really relevant to the current film.
Two words: Starkiller base. There is absolutely no way the First Order had the time or resources to build that thing. Its only reason for existing is to make the First Order seem like a bigger threat than the Empire, but the Empire struggled to build the Death Stars with all the resources of the galaxy at its disposal. Personally, I also feel that Kylo Ren's lightsaber is enough reason to hate the film no matter how good the rest of it is, but that's already been covered in great detail earlier in this thread :P
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To be honest. When I walked out of the theater, I immediately began searching for clues about Snoke...
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They could have done the Thrawn trilogy in full CGI, like the TOR cinematics, then the age of the actors would be irrelevant. But it would have been far better if they'd set the film a couple of hundred years in the future, when the Jedi and Sith have both been fully reborn and they could have made a completely new story without bringing in the original actors or being constrained by massive amounts of story content that isn't really relevant to the current film.
Two words: Starkiller base. There is absolutely no way the First Order had the time or resources to build that thing. Its only reason for existing is to make the First Order seem like a bigger threat than the Empire, but the Empire struggled to build the Death Stars with all the resources of the galaxy at its disposal. Personally, I also feel that Kylo Ren's lightsaber is enough reason to hate the film no matter how good the rest of it is, but that's already been covered in great detail earlier in this thread :P
A CGI Star Wars over a live-action sequel to the OT? Really? That's what we waited 30 years for? We're going to end up on completely different sides of this because to me that sounds terrible. I watch Rebels for that stuff. The easiest and best way to give the new story and bring in new characters is to bring them off the backs of the previous main characters. To connect the worlds. And no one wants a story 100+ years ahead. We want to know the aftermath of Jedi. We want to know what happened to Luke, Han, etc.
The EU was terrible and ridiculous and thank God it isn't canon because that was entirely unsatisfying. This still has a chance of not sucking as hard as the EU did. And this movie is a solid first step in that direction.
Struggled? They built it TWICE! The second time in far less time that the First Order had to build Starkiller base. I do agree we don't ever have a real understanding of what kind of financial situations we're talking about for the Resistance and the First Order but... perhaps they left it slightly ambiguous for a reason.
Kylo Ren's saber is fully explained now and all of the complaints of it earlier don't actually hold up. Because, surprisingly, none of us knew what we were talking about. Shocking what happens when you try to debate something with no information but gut reaction. Like reading a plot summary online and deciding you know the movie inside and out... It isn't a crossguard like we'd originally thought. They are vents of the excess power and energy of the crystal he is using. A crystal that is broken and leaks power. And in action, the vents are incredibly useful. The saber is chaotic and volatile, it practically crackles with energy. It's surprisingly effective.
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To be honest. When I walked out of the theater, I immediately began searching for clues about Snoke...
Me too. I have a good idea as to who he is but there is enough ambiguity that I could easily be wrong. We could all be wrong. It'll make for an interesting reveal in 8 or 9.
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To be honest. When I walked out of the theater, I immediately began searching for clues about Snoke...
Me too. I have a good idea as to who he is but there is enough ambiguity that I could easily be wrong. We could all be wrong. It'll make for an interesting reveal in 8 or 9.
It's Jar Jar Binks after all :o
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To be honest. When I walked out of the theater, I immediately began searching for clues about Snoke...
Me too. I have a good idea as to who he is but there is enough ambiguity that I could easily be wrong. We could all be wrong. It'll make for an interesting reveal in 8 or 9.
It's Jar Jar Binks after all :o
I would, no joke, rage quit the Star Wars fandom. All of it. Burn the collectables, movies, games, and delete every character I've ever made or created from every game and clan I've ever been apart of. Retroactively destroy my entire SW fandom.
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A CGI Star Wars over a live-action sequel to the OT? Really? That's what we waited 30 years for? We're going to end up on completely different sides of this because to me that sounds terrible. I watch Rebels for that stuff. The easiest and best way to give the new story and bring in new characters is to bring them off the backs of the previous main characters. To connect the worlds. And no one wants a story 100+ years ahead. We want to know the aftermath of Jedi. We want to know what happened to Luke, Han, etc.
I was just making suggestions for ways they could have made new films without wiping out 30 years of built-up lore. And I clearly said the CGI could be done like the TOR cinematics, not like the cartoon series. At that sort of quality, you're hardly even aware that it's CGI. For people who liked the EU, we already know what happened to Luke, Han etc, and I personally am much more interested in the revival of the Jedi as a whole rather than a couple of random, barely trained Force-sensitives. We had the OT for a story about someone discovering the Force for the first time. What's wrong with wanting someone who actually knows how to use it?
The EU was terrible and ridiculous and thank God it isn't canon because that was entirely unsatisfying. This still has a chance of not sucking as hard as the EU did. And this movie is a solid first step in that direction.
Clearly, you hate the EU and everything to do with it, so there's no way we'll ever reach an agreement on this point.
Struggled? They built it TWICE! The second time in far less time that the First Order had to build Starkiller base. I do agree we don't ever have a real understanding of what kind of financial situations we're talking about for the Resistance and the First Order but... perhaps they left it slightly ambiguous for a reason.
The second Death Star was never completed. They rushed to make the super laser operational, but a huge amount of the infrastructure was incomplete. And yeah, they left it ambiguous because they knew that if they did anything to draw attention to how much effort was actually involved in weaponising a planet, everyone would realise that even with Star Wars level technolgy it simply isn't possible.
Kylo Ren's saber is fully explained now and all of the complaints of it earlier don't actually hold up. Because, surprisingly, none of us knew what we were talking about. Shocking what happens when you try to debate something with no information but gut reaction. Like reading a plot summary online and deciding you know the movie inside and out... It isn't a crossguard like we'd originally thought. They are vents of the excess power and energy of the crystal he is using. A crystal that is broken and leaks power. And in action, the vents are incredibly useful. The saber is chaotic and volatile, it practically crackles with energy. It's surprisingly effective.
That... actually makes it worse. The fact that the side openings were vents was a prevailing theory, but I was actually hoping it was meant to be a guard instead, because if one of those vents was cut or damaged in any way, the saber would just explode in his hand.
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books over the movies isn't the exact making of the books... example i perfer the walking dead tv series over the comics..
Star Wars books over the recent movie is due to a few things that just were too over the top...
I can assume anyone reading this has watched the movie by now ( given this is a original clan to a star wars video game series... and hence forth most likely a star wars fan )... *EDIT* Minus one of the two debating in the past posts.*
with that said this could be a spoiler so stop reading....
When rey is locked up and then out of a sudden can wield the force ( mind trick ) a storm trooper and continues to gain "powers" or abilities till the end of the movie... Come on...
poo original movies took luke two movies and according to the time line a couple of years to learn how to pull his light saber to him... let alone mind tricks.. She pulls it off within a few days..?
Kylo holding a laser bolt mid flight... for the duration of his less then sinister speech. then magically releasing it after 5 mins... just a little over the top.
I did however enjoy the humor in the movie.. generally all the new characters. I enjoyed the movie for entertainment value... but still feel the books held more the star wars feel. Its a matter of opinion in which
you need to form your own. With that said too.. why ruin the movie through reviews? you know how many good movies i've watched with less then good reviews and i found were awesome. Games too....
any which way happy new years everyone... theres gonna be a few more star wars titles... never know maybe a few more decent games.
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I absolutely agree that films with bad reviews can be fun to watch, just as films with great reviews can be a complete bore: it's all a question of personal taste. To be clear: the reason I haven't seen it has nothing to do with my distaste for how they handled the erradication of the EU or any of their questionable design decisions, but rather because, where I live in London, a single cinema ticket costs almost as much as a BlyRay disc. I have no intention of shelling out 15 or 20 pounds for a single person to see a film once when the same amount of money can get me a disc of an equally good film that I can watch repeatedly :P
When I can see it without throwing away a small fortune, I certainly will, and I'll try to enjoy it for its good points, but for me the EU is always going to be the canon continuation of the Star Wars story and the new films/books/games will be the alternative version.
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When rey is locked up and then out of a sudden can wield the force ( mind trick ) a storm trooper and continues to gain "powers" or abilities till the end of the movie... Come on...
poo original movies took luke two movies and according to the time line a couple of years to learn how to pull his light saber to him... let alone mind tricks.. She pulls it off within a few days..?
Kylo holding a laser bolt mid flight... for the duration of his less then sinister speech. then magically releasing it after 5 mins... just a little over the top.
any which way happy new years everyone... theres gonna be a few more star wars titles... never know maybe a few more decent games.
Luke used the Force in the first movie to curve rockets down an exhaust port and BLEW UP THE DEATH STAR... Like he was in that Angelina Jolie bullet curving movie!
I mean... I agree, Rey came about all of this really fast, won't deny that... And while I suspect she is the new Chosen ONE, it was a bit fast. Luke was inconsistent with his level of skill and power in the OT. That is one of the only gripes I have about the OT. Luke seems as weak or as strong as the story needs him to be.
Also, stopping the blaster bolt was incredible. I loved that. I don't think his speech was meant to be sinister there though. Maybe I'm wrong. But I thought that was pretty epic, regardless. And then he let it go because he didn't need to hold it anymore... how long should he have held it? Lol
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That... actually makes it worse. The fact that the side openings were vents was a prevailing theory, but I was actually hoping it was meant to be a guard instead, because if one of those vents was cut or damaged in any way, the saber would just explode in his hand.
Until I'm on a PC I can't propel respond to this whole post but I do want to talk about this one part.
Your beloved EU had LIGHTSABER WHIPS.... and you're going to give me a hard time about cross guards or vents? Come on... You know you're stretching here.
The second Death Star was never completed. They rushed to make the super laser operational, but a huge amount of the infrastructure was incomplete. And yeah, they left it ambiguous because they knew that if they did anything to draw attention to how much effort was actually involved in weaponising a planet, everyone would realise that even with Star Wars level technolgy it simply isn't possible.
So... they built 1.5 Death Stars in less time than the First Order took to build Starkiller base... and? We don't even know how long Starkiller base took to build. Maybe Sidious designed it before his death. Maybe Snoke was building it in secret.
Money and financial backing aren't something Star Wars tends to explain. Because no one cares unless they are TRYING to find something to complain about. How did Sidious pay for the clones both at all (he doesn't run the Senate until well after they are paid for and grown) and how does he move that many credits unnoticed? How does the Trade Federation accumulate enough wealth for an infinite Droid army? What do their books look like? How did the Rebels pay for anything? Especially after Alderaan.. How did Sidious afford two moon sized bases? I mean, surely one is bad enough but wouldn't two bankrupt the Empire? How does Luke pay for the Jedi Enclaves? Or to feed Padawan for that matter. How does Thrawn get financial backing to create a force to rival the New Republic? Does it matter? Of course not, because OT and EU...
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I never said I love everything about the EU, but just because the EU did something bad that doesn't mean it's OK for the new trilogy to do something else that's bad. But a lightsaber whip is just shaped plasma in exactly the same way as a regular lightsaber, so it's just a new take on the same technology. I'm just questioning Kylo Ren's sanity if he willingly uses a weapon that has a chance to blow up every time he turns it on. Especially if he can pull a Neo and stop blaster bolts in mid-air: that just means he doesn't even need a lightsaber and his only reason for using it is to look badass. A task at which he fails, by the way.
You're right: money has never been explained in Star Wars, and a lot of things really shouldn't have been possible if you look at them purely from a financial point of view, but once again that doesn't mean that it's OK for the new trilogy to do the same thing. But money was only one of my concerns about Starkiller base. Its size completely dwarfs both Death Stars put together, so logically it would take at least as long to build as both of them. I'm assuming it moves, because otherwise it would be a fairly pointless superweapon, which means it would require as much engine power as every ship that existed, both on- and off-screen, during the OT and prequel time periods, and a similar amount of thrust facing forwards so it can stop without ramming into other planets in its path. Also, it seems completely pointless: the reason the Death Stars failed wasn't a question of size. They already had the power to destroy planets with a single shot. The reason they failed was because they both had a completely straight tube leading from the reactor out into space. If the first Death Star's exhaust tube had had even just one kink in it, Luke's torpedoes would have hit the side of the tube and never would have made it to the reactor.
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I never said I love everything about the EU, but just because the EU did something bad that doesn't mean it's OK for the new trilogy to do something else that's bad. But a lightsaber whip is just shaped plasma in exactly the same way as a regular lightsaber, so it's just a new take on the same technology. I'm just questioning Kylo Ren's sanity if he willingly uses a weapon that has a chance to blow up every time he turns it on. Especially if he can pull a Neo and stop blaster bolts in mid-air: that just means he doesn't even need a lightsaber and his only reason for using it is to look badass. A task at which he fails, by the way.
You're right: money has never been explained in Star Wars, and a lot of things really shouldn't have been possible if you look at them purely from a financial point of view, but once again that doesn't mean that it's OK for the new trilogy to do the same thing. But money was only one of my concerns about Starkiller base. Its size completely dwarfs both Death Stars put together, so logically it would take at least as long to build as both of them. I'm assuming it moves, because otherwise it would be a fairly pointless superweapon, which means it would require as much engine power as every ship that existed, both on- and off-screen, during the OT and prequel time periods, and a similar amount of thrust facing forwards so it can stop without ramming into other planets in its path. Also, it seems completely pointless: the reason the Death Stars failed wasn't a question of size. They already had the power to destroy planets with a single shot. The reason they failed was because they both had a completely straight tube leading from the reactor out into space. If the first Death Star's exhaust tube had had even just one kink in it, Luke's torpedoes would have hit the side of the tube and never would have made it to the reactor.
He stopped A blaster bolt. Which was awesome. Now, question his sanity (I think the saber is meant to mirror his personality) but you've jumped headlong into closed mindedness when you decide he carries a saber at all is because he wants to look cool.
So far you've said you are keeping an open mind but have pre-determined how you feel about the story, the characters, and their motives.
You've basically decided not to like it on principal because it isn't the EU you want. That's not an open mind...
Now...Why do Jedi carry a lightsaber? Why do Sith? That's why he does as well. Having abilities outside of using a saber is now a bad thing?
From what I've read no one else in the Knights of Ren carry a blade. He is the only one. And that is as close to a spoiler as I'm willing to get to.
If you are going to give the OT and EU a pass and then fault the new movie for that same thing than this can't be a real conversation. As I've said, you've made a decision not to like something and seem to refuse to give it the same allowances you'll give the other stories.
But finally, I don't think Starkiller base moves........ and there is a reason for it and I can't say it cause spoilers but I'm sure you'll hate it one way or another regardless.
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But finally, I don't think Starkiller base moves........ and there is a reason for it and I can't say it cause spoilers but I'm sure you'll hate it one way or another regardless.
Spoilers in black.
The base consumes an entire star while reloading, so it has to move to the next star for another reload. Don't know how though.
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Now...Why do Jedi carry a lightsaber? Why do Sith? That's why he does as well. Having abilities outside of using a saber is now a bad thing?
Jedi carry a lightsaber as a symbol of authority. Sith carry one to fight Jedi. In a world where the Jedi Order was never reborn, he really has no reason to carry one until he learns where Luke's hiding, especially with a broken crystal. Why not just get a new one? As for having powers beyond his saber, of course that's not bad. Vader drew his lightsaber exactly 3 times throughout the OT: to kill Obi Wan, to cut off Luke's hand and for the final duel against Luke. Other than that, he just used the Force, which is part of what made him such an effective villain. But if Vader's lightsaber had been broken, he wouldn't have kept the damaged crystal and made a new hilt with a couple of easily exploitable weaknesses.
My comments have all been based on logic rather than opinion. The EU and OT really have no place in this dicussion, and yet you constantly refer to them to justify flaws in the new trilogy.
I feel that the discussion's about to start looping back on itself, so we should probably stop before it gets boring, but finally, can you honestly say that you wouldn't want a feature length film like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzq9epS2b1A ? :P
That's what we could have had if they hadn't been desperate to bring back the old actors.
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I find it funny how finances are being discussed. That was actually covered at some point in the lore. The Republic managed to fund all the clones and new ships by borrowing a lot of money. So once they won, they would have had a lot of debt to deal with. But then the Empire happened, and they deal with it a little bit differently. I doubt Sidious had to pay a single spacepenny for the 2 Death Stars. They would have exploited worlds and used slave labour.
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In a world where the Jedi Order was never reborn, he really has no reason to carry one until he learns where Luke's hiding, especially with a broken crystal.
Kylo admires Vader. Since Vader had a saber, Kylo must have a saber. He is adamant to be as strong as Vader, for me it makes sense he has tuned his saber trying to achieve this. In addition, the Jedi Order was reborn, but destroyed. Kylo was the one to destroy it, so he would need a saber - or have one already.
I feel that the discussion's about to start looping back on itself, so we should probably stop before it gets boring, but finally, can you honestly say that you wouldn't want a feature length film like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzq9epS2b1A ? :P
That's what we could have had if they hadn't been desperate to bring back the old actors.
If I had to name a single best aspect of Episode 7, that would be Harrison Ford. Even if a digital character would be voiced by him, that would never be the same.
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Kylo admires Vader. Since Vader had a saber, Kylo must have a saber. He is adamant to be as strong as Vader, for me it makes sense he has tuned his saber trying to achieve this. In addition, the Jedi Order was reborn, but destroyed. Kylo was the one to destroy it, so he would need a saber - or have one already.
OK, fair point. So it makes sense that he at least owns a saber, and possibly even that he carries it with him everywhere. And if he's meant to be mentally unstable, it might even make sense that he'd use a volatile lightsaber rather than simply making a new one that works properly. But if he's capable of stopping a blaster bolt in midair, it seems to me that he's already more powerful than Vader, because that's something Vader could never do :P Also, this raises another question: if Kylo destroyed the reborn Jedi Order, which presumeably included several at least moderately-trained Jedi, if not full Masters, how did he not completely annihilate Rey, a girl with next to no formal training in the Force, during their first encounter? Are we really meant to accept that she's so incredibly gifted that she's more powerful than dozens of Jedi working together? Of course, this is probably getting a bit too far into detailed story content, which I can't really discuss without watching the film :P
If I had to name a single best aspect of Episode 7, that would be Harrison Ford. Even if a digital character would be voiced by him, that would never be the same.
Well, you'll have to do without him for the rest of the trilogy. But I was referring to the story content more than the (extremely) high quality CGI work :P
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But finally, I don't think Starkiller base moves........ and there is a reason for it and I can't say it cause spoilers but I'm sure you'll hate it one way or another regardless.
Spoilers in black.
You are likely correct. I hadn't really thought of that all the way through. So, yeah, makes sense it would have to move a bit.
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In a world where the Jedi Order was never reborn, he really has no reason to carry one until he learns where Luke's hiding, especially with a broken crystal.
Kylo admires Vader. Since Vader had a saber, Kylo must have a saber. He is adamant to be as strong as Vader, for me it makes sense he has tuned his saber trying to achieve this. In addition, the Jedi Order was reborn, but destroyed. Kylo was the one to destroy it, so he would need a saber - or have one already.
I feel that the discussion's about to start looping back on itself, so we should probably stop before it gets boring, but finally, can you honestly say that you wouldn't want a feature length film like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzq9epS2b1A ? :P
That's what we could have had if they hadn't been desperate to bring back the old actors.
If I had to name a single best aspect of Episode 7, that would be Harrison Ford. Even if a digital character would be voiced by him, that would never be the same.
I wasn't going to say all this cause spoilers... but yeah.. Sorry anyone who hasn't seen it yet...
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Now...Why do Jedi carry a lightsaber? Why do Sith? That's why he does as well. Having abilities outside of using a saber is now a bad thing?
Jedi carry a lightsaber as a symbol of authority. Sith carry one to fight Jedi. In a world where the Jedi Order was never reborn, he really has no reason to carry one until he learns where Luke's hiding, especially with a broken crystal. Why not just get a new one? As for having powers beyond his saber, of course that's not bad. Vader drew his lightsaber exactly 3 times throughout the OT: to kill Obi Wan, to cut off Luke's hand and for the final duel against Luke. Other than that, he just used the Force, which is part of what made him such an effective villain. But if Vader's lightsaber had been broken, he wouldn't have kept the damaged crystal and made a new hilt with a couple of easily exploitable weaknesses.
My comments have all been based on logic rather than opinion. The EU and OT really have no place in this dicussion, and yet you constantly refer to them to justify flaws in the new trilogy.
I feel that the discussion's about to start looping back on itself, so we should probably stop before it gets boring, but finally, can you honestly say that you wouldn't want a feature length film like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzq9epS2b1A ? :P
That's what we could have had if they hadn't been desperate to bring back the old actors.
The EU definitely has a place here because the debate started with rhe complaint that the EU was tossed out to make the film. Then the debate about whether the EU was even good, or whether it needed to be erased. And now nitpicking parts of the movie you haven't even seen that do similar things you don't nitpick in the EU and OT, which is a double standard. Your point may have logic but if you complain about it in TFA but let it go in the OT and EU then you have no leg to stand on.
From what I gather, you didn't want them to use, throw out, alter, or ignore the EU. And you've decided not to like TFA because it isn't the EU, but also because some of it borrows from it..
You've basically resolved to not like the something but claim to have an open mind...
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Kylo admires Vader. Since Vader had a saber, Kylo must have a saber. He is adamant to be as strong as Vader, for me it makes sense he has tuned his saber trying to achieve this. In addition, the Jedi Order was reborn, but destroyed. Kylo was the one to destroy it, so he would need a saber - or have one already.
OK, fair point. So it makes sense that he at least owns a saber, and possibly even that he carries it with him everywhere. And if he's meant to be mentally unstable, it might even make sense that he'd use a volatile lightsaber rather than simply making a new one that works properly. But if he's capable of stopping a blaster bolt in midair, it seems to me that he's already more powerful than Vader, because that's something Vader could never do :P Also, this raises another question: if Kylo destroyed the reborn Jedi Order, which presumeably included several at least moderately-trained Jedi, if not full Masters, how did he not completely annihilate Rey, a girl with next to no formal training in the Force, during their first encounter? Are we really meant to accept that she's so incredibly gifted that she's more powerful than dozens of Jedi working together? Of course, this is probably getting a bit too far into detailed story content, which I can't really discuss without watching the film :P
If I had to name a single best aspect of Episode 7, that would be Harrison Ford. Even if a digital character would be voiced by him, that would never be the same.
Well, you'll have to do without him for the rest of the trilogy. But I was referring to the story content more than the (extremely) high quality CGI work :P
There is an answer to this, but I'm not 100% you want to know cause it spoils the whole movie...so... torrent it or something lol. There is an answer, but you have to buy in a little and it takes some explaining... but again... spoilers... So tread carefully. I mean it... I'm in full spoiler mode here.
REY: It is shown earlier in the movie that she is quite adept at hand to hand fighting, primarily with a staff. She's athletic and a very resourceful person. This coming from some 10+ years alone on Jakku. I mean, you learn to fight for food, your life, etc. And even with that, she is clearly over-matched for much of the final fight. She is basically running much of it. It is also suggested she draws from the Dark Side to overcome him using her pain and anger and sheer force of will...
KYLO: by this point he is an emotional wreck and pretty badly injured. The screenplay notes that “Kylo Ren is somehow WEAKENED by this wicked act,” noting that he is “horrified” and his “SHOCK is broken only when” someone cries out in agony. Even still, he dominates the early portion of the fight until a combination of his injury and rey tapping into the Dark Side overpower him.
As for Kylo killing the NJO, he does it in the dead of night, sneakily, with the entire Knights of Ren at his back. So, again, he's neither fully trained nor in control.
Spoilers over... I hope no one who didn't want to read that accidently does.
Also 4 replies in a row. I'm on fire!
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Sure, the very beginning was about the EU, but all my points about TFA have been based entirely on fact, and purely related to TFA. Starkiller Base is impossible and impractical. Kylo's lightsaber is as much a danger to him as to his enemies. I've conceded that the saber does make sense, because apparently it's explained in the film, and you could have just said that instead of pointing and laughing at lightsaber whips. I still haven't read anything that suggests the base is anything more than Snoke's wet dream, though :P
I have no doubt the film's fun to watch for a couple of hours, if you don't think too hard about what's actually happening and how, but if it's a truly good film, that can stand on its own two feet, it should answer all the relevant questions. You have to defend your position on its own merits, rather than justifying flaws by pointing at other flaws somewhere else.
I don't let things slide in the OT or EU, but if we start discussing everything wrong with them we'll be here all year.
And as I pointed out, the Rey/Kylo spoiler was getting a bit more into the story than I could discuss, meaning I didn't know if it was explained. I won't torrent the film until it comes out on disc, because I don't want to watch it on a low-quality cam recording.
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Also, this is the second time in 50 years that the Jedi have been wiped out. What's the point of them if they're so easy to eradicate? :P
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Sure, the very beginning was about the EU, but all my points about TFA have been based entirely on fact, and purely related to TFA. Starkiller Base is impossible and impractical. Kylo's lightsaber is as much a danger to him as to his enemies. I've conceded that the saber does make sense, because apparently it's explained in the film, and you could have just said that instead of pointing and laughing at lightsaber whips. I still haven't read anything that suggests the base is anything more than Snoke's wet dream, though :P
I have no doubt the film's fun to watch for a couple of hours, if you don't think too hard about what's actually happening and how, but if it's a truly good film, that can stand on its own two feet, it should answer all the relevant questions. You have to defend your position on its own merits, rather than justifying flaws by pointing at other flaws somewhere else.
I don't let things slide in the OT or EU, but if we start discussing everything wrong with them we'll be here all year.
And as I pointed out, the Rey/Kylo spoiler was getting a bit more into the story than I could discuss, meaning I didn't know if it was explained. I won't torrent the film until it comes out on disc, because I don't want to watch it on a low-quality cam recording.
It is not impossible. Though, I may give you impractical. I've given possible explanations for its construction though. But, this is why the EU and OT are important to this discussion. Because you seem very willing to suspend your disbelief with them, even going so far as to rationalize or ignore them, but then you refuse to give TFA the same latitude.
They are all Star Wars products, and as such you need to view them consistently and fairly. And, perhaps most importantly, with an open mind.
And let's be honest... lightsaber whips is a good comparable when an EU fan starts ripping on the cross guard, lol.
Based on that definition none of the SW films stand up. Too much is unexplained or unexplainable without having to read the books or the former EU... Especially as information is presented over the course of 3-6 films and multiple books and not ever just the one. So you can't say any one SW movie stands on its own because it heavily relies on the others to tell parts of the story. So how can you judge TFA on that same level when it is 1 of 3?
That's an inconsistency in judgement. Episode 4 is the only one that maybe stands on its own without the need for the others, but even that has MANY questions left unexplained and unanswered... So, you can't very well expect Ep7 to do what no other SW film has really done.
Also, finally, there is the DVD screener leak. DVD quality. I've seen it (for my 4th and 5th viewings of the movie, 3 in theatres) and it is good. No floating heads or random people talking or the cameraman hiding the camera when someone walks down the aisle lol.
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You have no idea what I accept in the OT and EU and what I don't, because I haven't told you anything about that, except that I like the lore that's built up around it, as a whole. That doesn't mean the whole thing's perfect, of course: anything from TFA that I don't like is also bad in the EU and OT, I'll freely admit that. I may be one of only a few people here who only considers the OT to be decent films rather than fantastic works of art, and for Star Wars as a whole, I've always been far more interested in the over-arching lore than in individual stories.
As Vingtor pointed out, the Emperor could have brought in slave labour from across the galaxy to build the Death Stars, and he could have commanded every shipyard in the galaxy to start churning out durasteel plates, and it wouldn't have cost him a thing. And it still took at least 15 years total to build both, assuming he didn't begin immediately after the Clone Wars. Snoke has no such authority, so even with double the time, he'd be hard-pressed to complete a single deathstar, let alone build something on the scale of Starkiller Base. The only way he could do it is with off-screen movie magic :P
The OT set the standard for Star Wars technology and limitations, by showing that the Empire was so powerful and impressive that it could build a space station the size of a small moon. Once that was established, and it was shown that this is really the peak of current technology, it makes sense that they'd be able to build another one and, having learned from previous mistakes, they could build it a bit bigger and more quickly. Skip forward 30 years and suddenly someone with far fewer resources and a smaller potential workforce has built something 10 times as impressive. Unless there's a detailed explanation as to why technology has advanced at such a rapid pace, especially considering that Prequel tech is almost exactly the same as OT tech, it's much harder to swallow such a feat in an existing universe than if they'd created a new universe in which they start out by saying 'This is possible.'
I don't like lightsaber whips from an aesthetic point of view, because they just look clunky and horrible, but then I don't like regular whips as weapons, either. But that's just a matter of opinion and personal taste. My main opposition to Kylo's saber, after you confirmed that the side bits are, in fact, vents rather than a guard, was technical, because it's just badly made and risks exploding as soon as one of the vents gets damaged or blocked. But I've accepted that, because Scalarik explained the reason for it, using only events from TFA rather than trying to deflect my concern by pointing at a flaw in the EU.
Do you have a link to that torrent? I've looked but could only find cam copies :o
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I agree that Starkiller base is a bit much. Of course the fact it is based on a planet, makes it easier to accept they *might* have been able to build something of that scale. What I would like, is that the base was discovered from the unknown regions (the remnants of the Empire are looking for something in the first Aftermath book). However, in the movie General Hux, speaking to First Order says "this thing you have built", undermining this theory.
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What I would like, is that the base was discovered from the unknown regions (the remnants of the Empire are looking for something in the first Aftermath book).
That would have been great ;D
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I agree that Starkiller base is a bit much. Of course the fact it is based on a planet, makes it easier to accept they *might* have been able to build something of that scale. What I would like, is that the base was discovered from the unknown regions (the remnants of the Empire are looking for something in the first Aftermath book). However, in the movie General Hux, speaking to First Order says "this thing you have built", undermining this theory.
Yeah... I did some reading about that base. This is the same universe that had the Death Stars, I can accept those, they make sense. But I can't count the number of times my palm has met my face while reading the description of the tech and mechanics. Let's get one thing straight. The technology in Star Wars is stagnated. It has been the same for the last few thousand years, they have reached the highest point. Clones were hardly new, they just weren't mass produced for moral reasons. The closest we got to new technology emerging were in fact the Death Stars, which in essence was "Let's make the biggest laser we can make, and build a massive ship around it. Make it shaped like a sphere because I said so". The EU had Darksaber (http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/0/00/DarksaberConstruction-TEC.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20081002221752), which was essentially the weapon part of the Death Star without all the other fluff.
Anyway, the stuff about Starkiller base is just crazy. It's insane. I'll even ignore the fact that they somehow strapped engines to a bloody planet. That by itself is just ridiculous. Even if it's a small planet. Sure, it's powered by suns. Great. It absorbs suns, stores the energy in THE PLANETARY CORE, and has a big tube which releases the energy into sub-hyperspace. Wait, isn't that just regular space? ((Space + 1) - 1) = Space. Whatever. And because plot, that energy just passes through everything, until it hits a planet. And it's near instant, because it goes through (sub)hyperspace. Fair enough. The Falcon can cover 25,000 Ly in a day at full speed, so clearly hyperspace makes things quite fast. Except this isn't hyperspace, but whatever.
None of it makes sense, and it's way outside the technological capabilities in the Star Wars universe. And it's funny how one of the biggest complaints about the EU was that it went completely crazy in that regard, with crazy weapons. The First Order could have just gone with a Sun Crusher, if they love using suns so much. Just launch a resonance torpedo at it and have some pina coladas as you watch the sun go supernova.
Any even ignoring the technology, Starkiller base literally runs on a form of dark energy they call "quintessence". I can't even.
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What I would like, is that the base was discovered from the unknown regions (the remnants of the Empire are looking for something in the first Aftermath book).
That would have been great ;D
I agree. Ancient races get a pass for using ridiculous tech.
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And yeah, I'm aware that quintessence is a real... hypothetical form of dark energy. I stand by my point, the scientist who called it that, and the Star Wars writer who went with it both deserve a slap.
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I'll even ignore the fact that they somehow strapped engines to a bloody planet. That by itself is just ridiculous. Even if it's a small planet.
My biggest problem with moving a planet is the atmosphere. You can strap engines on solid structures, such as the Death Star, and move that around. But the atmosphere is only strapped in by gravity, and given my experiences of being in an accelerating car, everything that is not properly strapped in, is affected by forces (or to be exact, the lack of forces :P).
From what I know, ships entering hyperspace accelerate, instead of warping directly. For Starkiller to be even remotely effective, it needs to be able to enter hyperspace. Any sub-lightspeed would take years to travel from star to star. Therefore, there is quite a heavy acceleration, which would leave a cloud of atmosphere behind when the planet is moved about. No wonder it was cold on the planet :P
Would a force field of some kind be a sufficient solution? I dunno. Either way, the base seems quite impractical. And about that laser, why would you even need one? Just eat the sun and blow the energy in any direction, the planets are doomed anyway.
Did the Death Stars have hyperdrives? Does seem quite stupid to not come out of hyperspace on a direct line of fire to Yavin IV.
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Did the Death Stars have hyperdrives? Does seem quite stupid to not come out of hyperspace on a direct line of fire to Yavin IV.
Good point. It's almost as if the Empire WANTED the rebels to win :o
And yeah, the atmosphere would most likely be left behind every time the planet moved :P I don't know if shields work in Hyperspace, in the Star Wars universe, because there's never been a reason for them to do so: ships can't fight or manoeuvre in Hyperspace so all the action happens in normal space.
But like I said earlier: to move such a massive object they'd need the full engine power of every ship in the galaxy. I'm pretty certain the amount of force needed to move an object in any sort of controlled manner increases exponentially with the object's mass. It might not have conventional sub-light engines, but it would certainly also need gyroscopic engines to aim the gun, requiring a massive amount of thrust to rotate the planet at any sort of speed and then again, in the opposite direction, to stop the rotation.
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So I haven't read all the posts in this tread, but here is my response for EU vs this film and various other gaps in SW logic.
First: financials. I don't think that financial constraints were particularly important to the Empire. Their solution to labor shortages? Enslave an entire race (wookies). Their solution for a lack of resources? Most likely just threaten a planet with destruction unless the resources are given up. An authoritarian government like that with such dominant military power won't be terribly worried about paying its subjects for goods/labor. The part that would need to be paid for is knowledge and skill. These were achieved through enslavement/coercion or through rewarding the smartest people with privileges that others didn't have access to. In the EU, some of the super smart scientists were hidden in the Maw and not told the truth about what their inventions were doing. Which led to defection when the possibility arose.
How did the Republic pay Kamino for all of those clones? Was it done because they just loved cloning things or was there a reason? How does Kamino as a society even exist? A hidden planet with the capacity to clone an army of unlimited size? Wouldn't they have just taken over the entire galaxy on their own? I know I would have if I was in their position.
One of the only people who gets paid in SW movies is Han Solo. Remember him loading boxes and boxes of credits onto the Falcon before Luke goes to attack the death star? Why in such a futuristic society can't they pay people electronically? They should have used bitcoin so the empire didn't notice. ;) Most of the other "transactions" seem to be the result of bets and wagers.
EU vs New movies: The EU was great, but it was not written in a way that would allow a good movie. The stories were not written chronologically, so stories written later (but set earlier) include information that could contradict earlier stories, or at least make them very convoluted. I read numerous EU books and really enjoyed them. However, I think that trying to make a movie that could be received by a wide audience, at least some of that needed to be disposed of.
If the EU was going to be used for new movies, I think basing it on the Yuzung Vong would have made some sense. That was an epic story which could have been well adapted for a new movies series. However, the backstory and all of the technological elements that had to be described lent themselves much more to a literary medium.
Writing stories about removing the Imperial warlords from the Core would have been good for movies as well. There were some great settings in those books and it would have been a good follow up to the originals. The actors are too old now, though.
One of my largest complaints about the new movie compared with the EU is the lack of new planets, tech, etc. Essentially one new planet, which is just tattooine. In just the first few chapters of the Thrawn series, there are numerous societies which are introduced and explored. We meet numerous species and learn about their cultures. I think this was missing from the new movie. I am hoping this will change in the next two, and that this first one was to introduce new ideas and plots. I do think there was A TON that was left unexplained with no backstory. I'm hoping that this will be expanded in the new movies and will give us a larger world to play in.
For all of their faults, the prequels did this. GL said in his interview that he always tried to introduce new tech, new planets, new ideas into his movies. He did that. Some of them were bad ideas (Jar Jar), but they at least added to the universe.
For the points about atmosphere and the death star hyperdrive: Yes, the Death Star had a hyperdrive (at least the first one). Most likely it needs time after leaving hyperspace to charge the weapon, which is why it entered on the opposite side of the planet to Yavin IV. Entering on the back, it had some element of surprise and time to charge the weapon and set targeting trajectories. Without scouts, the Rebels wouldn't have known it exited hyperspace with the Death Star hidden behind the planet. If the empire was smart they would have had intradictors and fighters stationed to prevent any scouts from getting back around the planet to alert the base on Yavin IV. In the EU, the Death Star has both hyperdrive and sublight. Not sure about the effectiveness of either. Also - it may have needed to exit hyperspace on that side to get into a safe orbit, without risking crashing into a moon or drifting into a planet.
From my understanding, it would not be possible to bring a planet with an atmosphere into hyperspace. Although Zonama Sekot is an interesting counterpoint. That is a little different because Zonama Sekot was alive. It may have been able to somehow regenerate its atmosphere, or perhaps it never went to hyperspace and just moved around at sublight somehow. A planet accelerating to hyperspace would most likely disintegrate before reaching that speed regardless of the atmosphere. If it didn't the atmosphere would be stripped like on a comet.
TL;DR: SW is full of plot-holes and inconsistencies. Money exists but only when convenient. EU was fun but is too convoluted to make into movies. I wish there was more newness to the Ep. VII (new species, new planets, new tech).
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Question for anyone who might know:
The novelizations of the movies, how are they created? Are they done by working off the film or by working off the screenplay?
Because, I'm a chapter and 20+ pages in and I've got to say, there are some pretty key differences. Extended conversations, characterizations are different slightly, and already some things are spelt out that don't get really worked through in the movies (I suspect because they'll come up in either the sequel or Rogue One... Likely Rogue One).
The least spoiler-y example (but, again, tread lightly):
In the movie Unkar Plutt (the alien that trades food for salvage) he's presented as gruff and kind of a jerk. In the book, Rey mentions that while she wants away from him, he enjoys her company. He complements her, calls her by name, and says "That's my girl" after their first in-book (in-movie) transaction...
Now, I get they make him and everything rougher in the movie to show how rough her existence on Jakku is. But, on the other hand, we get that in other moments and ways that maybe Plutt being more caring would have helped some of the criticism's of her. Making him not a jerk and implying maybe he taught her some things or feeds her information as to where to go for salvage and she has someone making sure she stays breathing wouldn't have destroyed her independence or strength. Wouldn't have made her life suck all that much less or be all the less difficult. But, it would have helped take care of some of the question as to how she survived on Jakku from such a young age.
That said... as I read slightly further she notes she can feel his eyes "all over (her)" and now we've gone to creepy uncle territory. They have more interactions later so I may retract all of this later but the non-redacted question remains.
EDIT: Nope. Not a creepy uncle. He calls her "sweetheart", accepts her counterproposal for 100 portions for BB-8... And she accepted! And then only took it back not because it was the right thing but because Plutt had given her a hard time moments before and also he clearly wanted the droid too much and it made her suspicious. And the argument they have after is wonderful...
In short... the book is better (and I still love the movie).
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I'll even ignore the fact that they somehow strapped engines to a bloody planet. That by itself is just ridiculous. Even if it's a small planet.
My biggest problem with moving a planet is the atmosphere. You can strap engines on solid structures, such as the Death Star, and move that around. But the atmosphere is only strapped in by gravity, and given my experiences of being in an accelerating car, everything that is not properly strapped in, is affected by forces (or to be exact, the lack of forces :P).
From what I know, ships entering hyperspace accelerate, instead of warping directly. For Starkiller to be even remotely effective, it needs to be able to enter hyperspace. Any sub-lightspeed would take years to travel from star to star. Therefore, there is quite a heavy acceleration, which would leave a cloud of atmosphere behind when the planet is moved about. No wonder it was cold on the planet :P
Would a force field of some kind be a sufficient solution? I dunno. Either way, the base seems quite impractical. And about that laser, why would you even need one? Just eat the sun and blow the energy in any direction, the planets are doomed anyway.
Did the Death Stars have hyperdrives? Does seem quite stupid to not come out of hyperspace on a direct line of fire to Yavin IV.
I was thinking about this. On Star Destroyers the hangars have basically a giant open wall that the TIE fighters and whatnot fly in and out of. There is no door, it is not a glass window, the fighters fly in and out without anything being opened or moved and people are capable of walking within the hangar at any given time, even while shuttles and fighters leave (further proving it isn't simply a window or door or that the forcefield needs to be dropped in order for the ships to come and go). It is contained by the same forcefield that I assume contains the artificial gravity so the fighters and personnel don't float around in the hangar.
So... presumably even during the jump to hyperspace the atmosphere doesn't vent out of the hangar, the gravity isn't affected.
(http://i.stack.imgur.com/QFhVX.jpg)
Is that not the same basic principal as the Starkiller base? I mean, amplified to a planetary level but would that not be the same thing? The forcefield or shield keeps the atmosphere and artificial gravity in place as they do in the hangar of a Star Destroyer... That would be my guess.
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There's still the question of scale: a skyscraper doesn't involve the same construction principles as a bungalow, and a planetary shield doesn't use the same principles as a small force field on a hangar. But you're right: it might be possible to achieve a similar result on a grander scale, even if they need to make some serious modifications to how shields are modulated. So that's one aspect of the base that might possibly work if they have some really brilliant scientists working for them. Now try explaining everything else ::)
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Well, to provide a counterargument, I don't think that even Star Destroyers jump into hyperspace on a whim. Even in the Falcon, I seem to recall them strapping in for the jump and for dropping out. I might be wrong, and I probably am, but I feel like they couldn't just stand about for that sort of stuff. There's a lot of inertia. Either way, I feel like a military vessel, especially one of such scale, would likely have protocols for hyperspace jumps. Clearing the fighter bay prior to a jump doesn't seem impossible. We only ever see the hangars in regular space, it also seems quite possible that it would have mechanical doors that shut for hyperspace journeys. You need hull integrity for that sort of stuff, and having an open hangar with people and smaller ships inside seems like a silly idea.
The 2 most likely options in my mind are that
A. the crew leaves the hangar bay in preparation for a jump, walking through airlock doors. (Like the one that closed after Vader killed Ben). The atmosphere vents, and the forcefield drops. Fighter pilots could survive inside their ships.
or
B. more likely, a large door closes the hangar, keeping the atmosphere sealed in, so the crew can carry on working.
Of course, it's quite possible that the forcefield is just that good.
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There's still the question of scale: a skyscraper doesn't involve the same construction principles as a bungalow, and a planetary shield doesn't use the same principles as a small force field on a hangar. But you're right: it might be possible to achieve a similar result on a grander scale, even if they need to make some serious modifications to how shields are modulated. So that's one aspect of the base that might possibly work if they have some really brilliant scientists working for them. Now try explaining everything else ::)
What "everything else"? I've explained the lightsaber cross-guard, I've explained Rey vs. Kylo, I've explained how the Jedi are killed, I've explained how the EU is still, technically, in-tact, I've explained how the lightsaber may have survived (I mean, if the EU did it then it is possible...), I've given theories as to how the base was constructed in the 30 years between Ep6 and 7 (which, let's be honest, with a 30 year gap I shouldn't have to explain how it got built... 30 years seems a solid amount of time on its own), and I've explained how financing is generally treated in Star Wars and why it doesn't actually matter to the story... And I just gave a possible, though perhaps not entirely correct, possibility for the atmosphere issue of a hyperdrive planet... And there are many other possibilities.
The only thing I've read that I haven't explained his hyperdrive on a planet.
...Which I assume is similar to hyperdrive on a moon sized base like the Death Star, only bigger. But, I'm no engineer in a galaxy far, far away. I mean, if you are, that's awesome, but I don't quite have the degree or expertise in the technology that makes methink I can add much to this subject. Truthfully, this may be one of those "suspending disbelief" things I've mentioned you may have to do at some point in order to buy in.
Or maybe the book explains it... I haven't read that far.
What else have I not explained, rationalized, or given a strong theory on? I think I'm doing a darn good job of it thus far.
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I was just referring to Starkiller Base with that statement, because everyone's been giving far more solid arguments as to why it isn't simply a matter of 'like the Death Star but bigger.' Every piece of technology involved in the creation of Starkiller Base would have had to be invented pretty much from scratch during that 30-year period, before they even began construction. It simply is not possible, according to the technology that's available in the prequels and OT. Especially considering that in the previous 30 years, between ep I and ep IV, technology didn't advance at all and may actually have regressed a little bit.
They've broken one of the most important rules of writing: keep the laws of the universe consistent. Despite all of their flaws, that's one thing that the prequels actually managed to get right.
Like I said: I don't doubt that it's a fun film to watch, and I most likely will enjoy it when I can finally get my hands on a copy, but there is absolutely no way that Starkiller base exists. Scalarik's suggestion that it could have been a remnant from a super-advanced ancient race would have made all these concerns go away, but the film specifically states that it was built by the First Order.
Starkiller Base doesn't exist, and the galaxy was never in danger. Hooray!! ::)
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The Death Stars were large, but they were mostly hollow due to all the corridors, rooms, air ducts etc, so they weren't particularly massive and while they were bigger than any other ship in the fleet their overall mass would only have been a few times greater. This means the Death Star's engines would be basically the same as those of any capital ship, if just slightly bigger and more numerous.
Starkiller Base is a planet. It's solid pretty much all the way through, except for the actual base portion. It's dense. It's MASSIVE. It's mass would be hundreds if not thousands of times greater than one of the Death Stars.
Forget about Star Wars engineering and just use Google. Our moon is barely more than 1/100 the mass of the Earth, and both bodies are solid objects, made of basically the same materials. On top of this, the Moon's diameter is over 3,000 km. That's more than 21 times the diameter of the first Death Star. Even if Starkiller Base was built on a planet of that size it would be tough to believe that they could muster enough engine power to move it. But as it's clearly stated that the base is a planet, not a moon, it seems unlikely that it would be much smaller than Earth. That would mean a diameter of almost 13,000 km: 93 times the diameter of the first Death Star. Clearly, at that sort of scale, it's no longer a case of 'just make it bigger'. They need to invent an entirely new form of locomotion before they can just strap engines to a planet and make it move.
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This is shown in VII, just for reference:
(http://i.imgur.com/cRZ1Xru.jpg)
I believe the planet is mainly hollow, the void inside is where the energy is stored. Still, as it is so much larger than the Death Star, even if it indeed is fully hollow, it would be much heavier.
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Huh, well if it is indeed mainly hollow, that means the First order would have had to actively hollow out the planet, which would involve even more work than I expected :o
But yeah, the size means that even if the overall structure is a perfectly scaled-up version of the Death Star, it would likely have at least 300 times the mass of the first Death Star, so my point still stands ;D
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Here's something to think about: Is Starkiller Base limited to flying within the habitable zone of each system it's in? I mean, even ignoring that it flies about, somehow keeping its oxygen. There is a very specific distance from the sun where you can survive. So either they fly at veeeeery carefully designed orbits, or the whole planet has heating and air conditioning :P
It would be so much more PRACTICAL to build a bigger death star, really.
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Huh, well if it is indeed mainly hollow, that means the First order would have had to actively hollow out the planet, which would involve even more work than I expected :o
But yeah, the size means that even if the overall structure is a perfectly scaled-up version of the Death Star, it would likely have at least 300 times the mass of the first Death Star, so my point still stands ;D
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You literally went from "the only reason the Death Star works is because it is mostly hollow" to "Starkiller base is mostly hollow?! That's even worse! But also I'm still right"...
Star Wars takes a ton of suspension of disbelief, even with the rules they create themselves and the technologies. To make any of it work you have to be willing to buy in and you seem to be actively trying not to.
Be auss of that, I don't think any explanation will work for you. You've already decided it is impossible and as such refuse to accept it. Which makes being on the side of trying to explain things, including Starkiller base, futile.
You don't want to like the new EU or the new trilogy, I can't make you. Pretend it doesn't exist? Go for it. I'm not the one missing out.
But if I am spending time deconstructing what is and is not possible in a Star Wars movie I'd have to be doing it for someone who hasn't already decided anything he hears is wrong.
This must be what Menelaos felt like debating with me when I was much younger...
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This must be what Menelaos felt like debating with me when I was much younger...
Haha, if he'd only read this!
~ Master Valérii
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Huh, well if it is indeed mainly hollow, that means the First order would have had to actively hollow out the planet, which would involve even more work than I expected :o
But yeah, the size means that even if the overall structure is a perfectly scaled-up version of the Death Star, it would likely have at least 300 times the mass of the first Death Star, so my point still stands ;D
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You literally went from "the only reason the Death Star works is because it is mostly hollow" to "Starkiller base is mostly hollow?! That's even worse! But also I'm still right"...
Star Wars takes a ton of suspension of disbelief, even with the rules they create themselves and the technologies. To make any of it work you have to be willing to buy in and you seem to be actively trying not to.
Be auss of that, I don't think any explanation will work for you. You've already decided it is impossible and as such refuse to accept it. Which makes being on the side of trying to explain things, including Starkiller base, futile.
You don't want to like the new EU or the new trilogy, I can't make you. Pretend it doesn't exist? Go for it. I'm not the one missing out.
But if I am spending time deconstructing what is and is not possible in a Star Wars movie I'd have to be doing it for someone who hasn't already decided anything he hears is wrong.
This must be what Menelaos felt like debating with me when I was much younger...
You know what? I was going to write a huge and detailed response to this, explaining how you completely missed my point and you're ignoring any facts that get in the way of your own argument, but it would clearly be a waste of time. Suspension of disbelief only works when the world is first created and the rules established. They broke the rules.
I will, however, say that you haven't successfully argued a single point either in this thread or our pm conversation: the points I've conceded were explained by other people and the rest actually do fall into 'suspension of disbelief'.
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This must be what Menelaos felt like debating with me when I was much younger...
Haha, if he'd only read this!
~ Master Valérii
Hahah :D
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Huh, well if it is indeed mainly hollow, that means the First order would have had to actively hollow out the planet, which would involve even more work than I expected :o
But yeah, the size means that even if the overall structure is a perfectly scaled-up version of the Death Star, it would likely have at least 300 times the mass of the first Death Star, so my point still stands ;D
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You literally went from "the only reason the Death Star works is because it is mostly hollow" to "Starkiller base is mostly hollow?! That's even worse! But also I'm still right"...
Star Wars takes a ton of suspension of disbelief, even with the rules they create themselves and the technologies. To make any of it work you have to be willing to buy in and you seem to be actively trying not to.
Be auss of that, I don't think any explanation will work for you. You've already decided it is impossible and as such refuse to accept it. Which makes being on the side of trying to explain things, including Starkiller base, futile.
You don't want to like the new EU or the new trilogy, I can't make you. Pretend it doesn't exist? Go for it. I'm not the one missing out.
But if I am spending time deconstructing what is and is not possible in a Star Wars movie I'd have to be doing it for someone who hasn't already decided anything he hears is wrong.
This must be what Menelaos felt like debating with me when I was much younger...
You know what? I was going to write a huge and detailed response to this, explaining how you completely missed my point and you're ignoring any facts that get in the way of your own argument, but it would clearly be a waste of time. Suspension of disbelief only works when the world is first created and the rules established. They broke the rules.
I will, however, say that you haven't successfully argued a single point either in this thread or our pm conversation: the points I've conceded were explained by other people and the rest actually do fall into 'suspension of disbelief'.
I have and others have but you chose to ignore it. I gave 4 possible ways the saber was saved, you disregarded all of them because you want jt to be impossible. The crossguarded saber and the atmosphere, both things I argued and may have proven possible. Also, I argued about financing in Star Wars and explained why it works or doesn't need to based on the rules of the universe. Also explained Rey's abilities, Kylo vs. Rey and why it goes down as it does, and why Kylo carries a saber at all. I explained how it might be possible for Starkiller base to be built. I've explained the fall of Luke's Order.
You've decided clearly to forget all of that and say I've proven nothing.
That's like 8-10 things right there..
But yeah... I've proven nothing. Sure.
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I've seen TFA four times in theater now. Do I win something? Or can someone top that? :D